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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  September 1, 2017 2:30am-3:01am BST

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he confirmed the white house would ask congress for extra funds needed to help. at least 30 people have been killed since harvey came ashore as a powerful hurricane. across south asia, aid agencies are trying to help millions of people affected by flooding. more than 1,200 people are believed to have died. it's thought to be the worst monsoon season in decades with tens of thousands of people forced from their homes in india, nepal and bangladesh. the eu's chief brexit negotiator has said there's been no decisive progress at the third round of talks in brussels. his british counterpart said there had progress in some areas but acknowledged that differences remained, especially on the contentious issue of how much britain might owe the eu. now on bbc news, as part of hardtalk‘s 20—year anniversary, another chance to see stephen sackur‘s 2010 interview with sheriffjoe arpaio. welcome to hardtalk from phoenix,
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arizona. i'm in an open—air prison known as tent city, it is home to more than 1000 inmates, the section imean more than 1000 inmates, the section i mean right now is mostly illegal immigrants. this place is the brainchild of my guess is today, the self—styled toughest sheriff in america, drew up i/0. he has stoked a national controversy with his all—out campaign against illegal immigrants ——joe all—out campaign against illegal immigrants —— joe arpaio. the all—out campaign against illegal immigrants ——joe arpaio. the united states to mexico, 100 miles to the south. the question is if his campaign riding roughshod over the us constitution? sheriffjoe arpaio welcome to
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hardtalk. in the last few years you have focused your time and resources on the issue of illegal immigration. why? first of all the talk about resources . why? first of all the talk about resources. i had special grants from the state legislature that helped out. when people talk about i waste my budget out. when people talk about i waste dget going out. when people talk about i waste my budget going afterjust illegal aliens, the reason i started focusing on this problem was to new state laws were passed, but no one talks about. they talk about the present controversial calls a 1070 law that we had two other laws passed, human smuggling and employer sanctions. so i decided to enforce those laws that happen to be felonies. the laws on talking about.
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soi felonies. the laws on talking about. so i started enforcing the human smuggling, arrested over 2000 people coming into our county, maricopa county, arizona, and we arrested the smuggler, what they call coyotes, and the co—conspirators. smuggler, what they call coyotes, and the co-conspirators. and when you say co—conspirators you regard the people who are being smuggled as co—conspirators? the people who are being smuggled as co-conspirators? exactly. we are the only agency doing that. county attorney has prosecuted those cases. 94% conviction rate. why do you think no other authority regards them as co—conspirators and you do and you lock them up? why do you think the difference is that? that's a good point. maybe they don't care about enforcing their illegal immigration laws. maybe they're chiefs of police have to report to me is all city councils. but a report to anybody but the 4 million people who live in this county. 0n the elected sure. when you talk
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about other sheriffs, why they don't do itand about other sheriffs, why they don't do it and we have 15 surest total in arizona. i don't speak for them. do it and we have 15 surest total in arizona. i don't speakfor them. i speakfor arizona. i don't speakfor them. i speak for me and that is what we have been doing. and speaking for yourself, try to tell me how your attitude matches up to the words of attitude matches up to the words of a state senator russell pearce who has been in the forefront of the political effort to take on the illegal immigrants. he said not so long ago" it is time to circle the wagons against illegal immigrants who are responsible for a crime wave in our state and are stealing our jobs." you bring the same mindset? russell is a formal law enforcement officer, in fact, there was my chief deputy for a year when i first took office. so he has a lot of experience in law enforcement. now he isa experience in law enforcement. now he is a state senator, politician. but he has been behind many of these laws. that's right. relating to illegal immigration. they have been
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involved and upheld by other courts. but leaving aside the legality, and we will get to law 1070 in a minute, but in terms of the mindset to use the illegal immigrants as responsible for a crime wave and for stealing jobs? well first of all, it doesn't matter, it is a violation of the law. identical opportunity law enforcing guy, i like everybody up, whether it is cookers or deadbeats 01’ whether it is cookers or deadbeats or animal cruelty, murders, you whether it is cookers or deadbeats oranimal cruelty, murders, you name it. it happens to be in the law that time enforcing. so it's... but you have to prioritise. any lawman has two because you only have limited resources . two because you only have limited resources. i just wonder why you have chosen to prioritise immigration issue when looking at the statistics, and am quoting here from the independent immigration policy institute, they say, i'm quoting them" crime rates are falling in arizona and research shows immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native born."
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i believe the crime rates are now trying to take credit, nobody gives me credit anyway, the crime has gone down in this county, just about the timei down in this county, just about the time i started enforcing the illegal immigration laws, including crime suppression operations. where we go into certain areas and maybe a rest, what, i'm trying to think of the figures, let's say the average of 100 people in a 15 hour were crime... these are your sleeps where you go into, let's be honest about it, latina communities. i've gone into white communities, different types. i know you have but by and large according to lots of local people i have spoken to, you go into hispanic and latina neighbourhood, you sweep through, deepika people, sometimes on very trivial misdemeanours, and then you check out the immigration status. well that's not true, we have hit some areas that happen to be hispanic that there is a high crime rate there still be go into areas where there still be go into areas where there is a high crime rate, notjust
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into neighbourhoods. we don't go on street corners arresting people because they look like they are from another country. we don't do that. we arrest all types of violators of the law in a crime suppression, from peddlers to warrants that can go on and on. we will get back to that because it gets to the heart of the debate right now about the law 1070 in arizona but before we do, a fundamental point — is not the case that immigration law defining it and implementing it and keeping america's borders safe, is a federal government responsibility, not that of the state or of local lawmen such as yourself? i was a federal official. for almost 28 years, i was the regional director of mexico— south america, texas, arizona for the us drug enforcement, i know whether mexican border is, i know where the problems are in tech mexico and other countries... so it isn't a responsibility as sheriff of maricopa county. it is my responsibility, i have state laws i
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am enforcing, i mentioned the two laws we are enforcing, we have an intact before an inherent authority to enforce those laws and we do enforce the bank robberies, atf, fbi, for law enforcement does, enforce federal laws in this country. but as you know much better than me when the federal courts, the district court look at the arizona and so—called sp 1070, the bill which would be new powers for policing and checking immigration status of people, the district court decided that this was fundamentally a federal issue and that it blocked some of the powers that were designed to go to the police here in arizona. that is the district court, it is the p0, i assume, it will go to the supreme court, there has been other rulings that google law enforcement can enforce the federal immigration laws so this is one judge's opinion, it hasn't affected my operations, i'm still to bring
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the same thing, i've been doing it for 30 years, nothing has changed with me. you of course as sheriff responsible for the security, the well—being of the community. you are a community figure. as a worry that so a community figure. as a worry that so many figures in your own community and thinking about local offices of the national council of civil liberties, the hispanic legal and human rights movement, they are all absolutely adamant that the way you interpret the law right now and even more so you interpret the law right now and even more so the you interpret the law right now and even more so the new you interpret the law right now and even more so the new law 1070, are a fundamental violation of rights and would drive to quote them "a wedge between racial communities." first of all, if you say so many people in the community, my poles are usually 80% said you were talking about a small group of people. your poles recently haven't been anywhere near 80%, the most recent one i saw your favourability rate was down to the high 30s or low 40s. that was two
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yea rs high 30s or low 40s. that was two years ago by a pollster, if you read the polls it was 56%, you are talking about an old poll, let's talking about an old poll, let's talk about current polls that have bit over 80%. sir you were going back to garbage that was printed two yea rs back to garbage that was printed two years ago, some pollster that doesn't like me, but it doesn't matter, i know what my poles are, i know what my support is. i know all the money i have raised for the next election, millions of dollars, evidently someone likes what i'm doing is the sheriff. sure, but it's a slightly different point from actually considering the law, and on that issue it's interesting to me that issue it's interesting to me that you have a picture of you shaking hands with the president, president 0bama. and it does seem to me the danger here is a few and your supporters, although for a live like that to piercy in arizona, being on a collision course with a president who has made it quite plain that he does not believe arizona should push
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ahead. you mentioned 0bama and i will respond to that, you see president bush, i only met with 0bama asa president bush, i only met with 0bama as a courtesy to the secret service went the president comes into town with the sheriff like to meet with him. of course you would. yes, he is my president and i would respect the office and maybe we disagree on certain issues but it doesn't at all. what you do disagree don't you because he also talked about this building a wedge, it the arizona law would drive a wedge between communities.” arizona law would drive a wedge between communities. i don't know about that. i've had great support from the hispanic community. i was their hero at one time and i rest of their hero at one time and i rest of the military reserve is on a highway for putting guns in nine people on the street. they looked like they we re the street. they looked like they were from mexico. i rest of the military guy, i took a lot of heat and it is you don't go around pointing guns are people because of what they look like. now i am the enemy. you are now, and i want to put this quote to you because it is powerful and i wonder how you react, thomas saines was the president of
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the mexican—american legal defence fund says" the way that you are treating the immigration issue now is very similar, comparable, to what southern sheriffs were doing in the united states in the early 1960s, refusing to bow to federal antics" those about desegregation. you see any comparison? you know, if i'm so bad, as sheriff, being in office, 17 yea rs, bad, as sheriff, being in office, 17 years, what with the us government homeland security train 100 of my deputies and gives authorities to enforce illegal immigration laws? why did they do that? 100 deputies have been trained, five weeks of training, why would they do that if this sheriff is so bad? another set of figures, it's interesting to tease out what you make of them. an analysis by american civil rights lawyers locally said 70% of those that were arrested in one of the phased switch that you conducted in
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the area had spanish surnames and they point out that maricopa county generally has 31% latino population, this was their way of saying whatever the sheriffs as there is racial profiling going on right now in maricopa county. how did he know how many people we stop? how do they know how many people we arrested? we didn't take 70%. sometimes we do the crime suppression operation and the criminals or the law, we arrest, they happen to be hispanic. just happen to be? ayr, we don't racial profile, we stop everyone. everybody. it doesn't matter who they are. when we stop the person and it happens to be hispanic, and also here illegally, we are not going to overlook that. would it worry you if the perception was amongst hispanic people in your community, that it actually wasn't the case? you know, i thinki have a lot of support from the hispanic community, legal people here, not
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the illegal,. it's notjust hispanic groups, human rights groups who aren't happy, they are even police chiefs who i imagine you regard as collea g u es chiefs who i imagine you regard as colleagues of yours who say that your methods simply are wrong. i'm thinking of the chief of police of miso, george gascoigne, he says effective policing needs the cooperation of minority communities and he says we, unlike sheriffjoe, focus on people who are committing predatory crimes. really? is he in san francisco now? do you know that? he was in miso when he said that.” will tell you that, he is going around locking people, hanging around locking people, hanging around street corners, around buses, poor people? he says he only goes after violent criminals. he says there was a fundamental issue and you have to establish trust between communities in america and you have failed to do that. really? i have a lot of trust with the community, big time. i have a hotline. a hotline.
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8000 calls i got in a hotline to report illegal immigrants violation. we are using for the information comes from? illegal aliens. that's how we get our information. where do you think you get information on dope peddlers? drug trafficking? the use of drugs? i get a lot of information, this is a copout by police chiefs they are worried that the police will be missed trust with the police will be missed trust with the hispanic community, it went given any information, it takes a lot of resources, yet they can go after hawkers and task force with no seatbelt and win 53% of the people in myjails are booked by all police agencies are small crimes, so don't tell me that the only concentrate on big—time crimes and files, the copout is this— they have to report to politicians, they have to report to politicians, they have to report to city councils, city managers, and they do like to enforce the illegal immigration laws because some people
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wa nt immigration laws because some people want amnesty in this area in this country. i think, if i may, ithink, if i may, one i think, if i may, one of the reasons that gascon was not happy with you is that you took one of your well—known posses into his neighbourhood. he described it as a deeply dangerous situation. imc elected sheriff, i can go anywhere i wa nt elected sheriff, i can go anywhere i want in this whole county. he was not doing thejob want in this whole county. he was not doing the job on illegal immigration, soi not doing the job on illegal immigration, so i did. and i have the authority as the elected chief law enforcement officer to do that. maybe he should have been doing the job instead of going out with all these activists, raising money against me. as a highly respected lawman, you have been decorated across the united off states... the world. why are you facing an
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investigation from the bureau? when you are high profile, you do get people looking into you. is quite extraordinary in your case, you seem to have upset so many people. a whole host of local of issue officials accuse you of abusing your power to investigate them. notjust what we talked about, you're policing methods with minority groups, but also a systematic abuse of your powers locally. that is not true. we co—operate with the grand jury. i have been the first federal official for 30 years, jury. i have been the first federal officialfor 30 years, i know jury. i have been the first federal official for 30 years, i know how the government operates. they can have the investigations, i am not concerned about it. shouldn't you be
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concerned about it. shouldn't you be concerned about it. shouldn't you be concerned about it? shouldn't the people of the city be concerned about it? i will mention again my polls, every day i am in the headlines. it doesn't bother the people, they've read through all this garbage. it is a question of what the mindset says about your attitude to law enforcement. i can see the board which is about the conditions in your city, going into the pink underwear that you force your prisoners to wear. many of them are in temperatures higher than 100 fahrenheit. the question is, is it your intent to dehumanise, humiliate the prisoners you are responsible for? i am an old-fashioned guy, a senior citizen. when i grew up, when he did something wrong, you took
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away a privilege. we even used the word punishment. sorry to interrupt, i know it is rude. many people in your tent city are awaiting trial. everyone in that city are awaiting trial. we celebrated our anniversary. 0ur men and women fought for our country in iraq, in afghanistan. any —— everybody in those tents have been convicted. these conditions, including the pink underwear, you have been proud to say that you only feed your prisoners to meals a day, it is a id costing more to feed your dog is banna does your prisoners. we have dogsin banna does your prisoners. we have dogs in the jail, yes. some of the
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prisoners under these conditions have yet to be convicted. these conditions apply whether they are in the tents or not. i am just asking you whether you think that is acceptable. of course it is. they get their 2500 calories. it isjust not pepperoni pizza or steak where they have television, smoking, coffee. i took all that away, took it away. i was sued when i took away the coffee, but i won that case. so where is the problem? the hispanic community is the fastest—growing in the united states. they are the biggest minority community, their numbers are on the rise with a high birth rate, higher than pretty much any other minority community in this
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country. if the republican party is to form a coalition in future, they need hispanic and latina votes. are you helping the party reach out to that community? i don't do that, i just lock them up. it has nothing to do with politics. i think the republican party would like to be assured we lock up anybody, italian or whatever. it doesn't bother me if anybody says i am locking up hispanics, iam anybody says i am locking up hispanics, i am locking everybody up. you are very proud of your roots, your family is up. you are very proud of your roots, yourfamily is italian. they we re roots, yourfamily is italian. they were immigrants themselves to the united states. i know you will tell me they were illegal immigrants, it's a fair point. in the end, your history is part of the rich american immigrant experience. on a personal level, does it strike you as strange that you have pitched up a job that
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is so much of what you do seems to bea is so much of what you do seems to be a about stopping immigrants making a life in america? no, this has been going on for three years when the laws were passed. before thisjob, i had other priorities. it is myjob. to enforce the laws. i deal with the president and attorney general. i got along very well working with the mexican government. you would not get along with the current mexican president. stick his nose out of our business. i know the secrets of mexico, i lived in mexico forfour secrets of mexico, i lived in mexico for four years. secrets of mexico, i lived in mexico forfour years. he secrets of mexico, i lived in mexico for four years. he ought to worry about his own problems, not the united states. look at his immigration laws, his presence, his corruption. he ought to be looking at himself, not the united states. coming back to something we discussed earlier, if there has to bea discussed earlier, if there has to
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be a collusion between the federal government and forces here in arizona who want to pursue a different agenda on immigration policy, are you ready for that?” different agenda on immigration policy, are you ready for that? i am ready for anything. you want to wipe the laws of the book? that is ok with me. if the laws are there, i am going to enforce it. if not, i won't. if the feds intervened to tell you you can't do what you have been doing? if that could be proven, and the law says... justifies what they say, of course i won't do it. i have survived 17 years, i hate the word survived, but i have been getting shots for 70 years. people wonder why you do it, you don't get much money, you don't want to be the governor. when i leave, you'll forget my name. why do i do this? what objective? because i'm getting little publicity? i don't need that.
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what is my reason? i ask myself that. you're not going to asked me. i was going to! when i go on the streets and everybody comes up to me, almost everybody, and they said, thank you, sheriff, thank you for what you're doing, that motivation, as long as they keep saying thank you, thank you, i'll keep going. time for me to say thank you. thank you for being on hardtalk, sheriff joe arpaio. hello again. today marks the first day of the meteorological autumn, so i thought we would start
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with a summary of summer. a decent start. temperatures soared up to 35 celsius back in june, but since then it has been rather disappointing. a cool second—half, especially in august. the first few weeks terrible and quite wet at times too. this morning we get off to a chilly start of the day. out in the countryside, temperatures down to about 3—4 degrees in the coldest spots first thing, so a chill in the air. apart from that there will be plenty of morning sunshine. most areas having a dry morning as well. but into the early afternoon the cloud will bubble up, especially in eastern parts of the uk. a scattering of showers begins to develop. a largely dry picture in scotland. a few showers towards the borders and certainly into eastern counties of england. those showers get going. some of them will be heavy. thunder mixed in, but pretty well scattered. in the sunshine, wherever you are during the day on friday, there will be pleasant sunshine and it should feel reasonable, with temperatures generally
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into the high teens to the low 20s and a lightish north—westerly breeze in parts of the country. during the evening, those showers begin to fade away slowly. the second half of the night should become dry, and with clearing skies it will be another chilly night. so to start off the weekend again temperatures down to about 11—12 degrees. colder than that in the countryside. about 3—4 in the coldest spots. what about the weekend weather prospects? definitely a weekend of two halves. saturday with the best of it. sunny spells for the most part. but on sunday, after a bright start, particularly in the east, we start to see a band of rain moving across the uk. here is the pressure chart for the weekend. high pressure initially. there's this zone of wet weather moving into the second half of the weekend, with strengthening winds. in more detail, saturday is a decent day, with sunshine. dry for the vast majority. temperatures doing pretty well. high teens to low 20s, with light winds. it will feel pleasant in that september sunshine. most temperatures towards
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south—east england. we will see this rain encroach overnight into northern ireland. after a bright start to the day across eastern scotland, much of england will see cloud thicken up. outbreaks of rain moving in and it will turn breezy. temperatures 18—19 degrees typically. that's your latest weather. a very warm welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to our viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is mike embley. 0ur america and around the globe. my name is mike embley. our top stories: in the united states, more than 300 thousand people register for disaster relief in the wake of storm harvey — the white house is to ask congress for emergency funding. and in bangladesh, weeks after the worst flooding in decades, a third of the country is still underwater. millions are affected, across south asia. frustration in brussels and london as both sides in the brexit talks —— frustration in
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brussels and london as both sides in the brexit talks say there's been a lack of progress.
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